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Skillet-Awake and Alive
An interview with Skillet’s John Cooper
by Mike Newdeck
Skillet’s star is on the rise, 2006’s
breakthrough album ‘Comatose’ has been certified gold and latest release
‘Awake’ sold 200,000 units in the first twelve weeks of release. Latest
single ‘Monster’ is riding high on Billboard and the band through label
support and heavy touring are becoming something of a phenomena.
Vocalist and bandleader John Cooper seemingly has the world at his feet
as his band march on, seemingly unstoppable both in the secular and
Christian music markets.
Mike Newdeck caught up with him in Nashville to find out about the bands
slow but sure rise in popularity.
Cooper as always is in jovial spirits, and so he should be, Skillet’s
latest album ‘Awake’ and new single are doing well, so why wouldn’t he
be? The future looks bright.
Cooper has always been a great interviewee, chatty, sincere and with a
warmth and charm sadly lacking from some of today's “the world owes me”
rock stars.
After a short conversation about which part of the world I came from (he
originally guessed incorrectly as Australia), the conversation turns to
Skillet’s latest release ‘Awake’ and the differences between that album
and it’s predecessor.
“Well the obvious difference is that it’s probably a little heavier” he
explains, “It’s more aggressive, particularly in the vocals that you
hear. That’s part the reason why we got Howard Benson to do the latest
record, because I had heard that he likes that and he could help us
achieve that goal. Other differences would be that we wanted to get
someway back to that signature Skillet sound, whilst obviously trying to
keep in fresh, so perhaps we went away from the strings a little more
and backed off with the female duet vocals and went for a more out and
out balls to the wall rock sound such as on ‘Monster’. Also lyrically
it’s a bit darker and grittier.”
Of course Skillet in the past has been renowned for not sticking with
one particular style for too long, ‘Awake’ bucks that trend.
“My main concern was getting too far away from the sound on ‘Comatose’”
Cooper says “but although Comatose has been certified Gold in the US we
still don’t feel like a big band because we’ve never had a hit song on
the radio. ‘Monster’ is doing well now but before that there wasn’t
anything but I was very conscious of alienating our following, and as
Comatose has boosted our following I didn’t want to change it too much.
We must have been doing something right. Even up until after the record
was completed I still had my doubts but now it’s out there I’m proud and
I think it combines the best of both worlds.”
The three-year hiatus between albums was quite a long one considering
the band really needed to capitalize on Skillets newfound popularity.
“To level with you I would have wanted to get another one out earlier”
Cooper admits, but ‘Comatose’ just kept selling, significantly between
the second and third year. It was very viral; we used to get new people
turning up at shows. It seemed like the record wasn’t really done. There
were also issues with getting the producer sorted for the next record,
you know; sorting out Brian Howes, Howard Benson, that all took about
seven months. We actually cut several demos with other producers because
we didn’t know if it would work out with Howard. Add these to the
writing process and it all conspired against us getting another record
out quickly.”
Of course one glaring difference-not necessarily related to the sound of
‘Awake’-is the replacement of the drummer.
“I didn’t really want to replace her at all” Cooper concedes, making it
respectfully clear that Skillet is his baby “but she had been with the
band for seven years and she thought that it was time to move on, she’d
been doing it for a long time and Lori (Peters) was ready to get off the
road. I was bombed because I really loved her drumming, we’re still
great friends and we still go to Church together when we get the chance
back home. She’s completely left the music business now although she’s
still involved with music because she teaches the drums now.”
Part of the Skillet character has always been the symmetrical split
between the female and male band members and I wondered if Cooper had
consciously sought another female drummer to maintain the balance.
“Well I certainly didn’t think that we’d get another female drummer” he
admits “we weren’t even looking and then someone back home recommended
Jen (Ledger) and asked us to try her out. We tried out about ten
different people and Jen was the only girl. My wife and I discussed this
and all I wanted to do was get an awesome drummer for the band and not
just simply pick a drummer because she was a girl. Well anyway at the
audition she was incredible; it really surprised me. The other thing
that surprised me was that I thought that she was about twenty-one years
old…. turns out that she was only seventeen. If I’d have known that
before the audition she may well not have made it.”
With Skillet being a band on the rise the vacant drum stool would have
attracted some well-known faces to audition. Not so according to Cooper.
“Funnily enough that just didn’t happen” he continues “but we really did
get some fantastic drummers trying out, however you also have to think
about who will fit in with the band. Jen was definitely the right person
for the job, hands down.”
Cooper maintains that Ledger wasn’t given the job on the strength of her
voice.
“Singing wasn’t an issue,” he explains, “I didn’t know she could sing,
although people were telling me what a great voice she had. I didn’t
really believe them simply because everyone always says how great their
girlfriend, wife, friend is at singing…and they never are! However when
we got on tour and I asked her to give it a go I was like “wow” bonus!”
The two female, two male thing strikes a great balance in the band,
Cooper agrees.
“It’s something you don’t see very much” he offers “but on the other
hand it could be seen as a bit gimmicky and a bit too manufactured. None
of us are really smart enough to have run with this as a marketing
concept, it just really turned out that way.”
The songs on ‘Comatose’ and ‘Awake’ feature female vocals, but only to
as backing Cooper’s raspy lead, and not as you might imagine a fifty
percent split between the two in the lead vocals. Cooper says they
wouldn’t have it any other way.
“On songs like Hero we have a kind of duet thing going on” he theorizes
“but it’s still pretty clear that I’m the lead vocalist. We do the kind
of call and answer lines between us on some of the songs, it wouldn’t
have worked if we’d have done it all the way through or if the album had
been spilt fifty fifty between myself and Jen or Corey.”
‘Comatose’ was a masterpiece of modern rock and much of the credit must
go down to Brian Howes who not only produced it but also co-wrote all of
the songs with Cooper.
This time round Howard Benson produces but Howes was still involved with
the album.
“I still co-wrote some songs with Brian on Awake” he admits “ but maybe
only about twenty percent this time. I wrote some other stuff with Gavin
Brown as well.”
I’d maybe have some songs that were nearly complete and I just couldn’t
finish them, Brian, who is an incredible songwriter, would come up with
a line in about ten minutes to complete them. In the main though I write
mostly all the material.
Cooper chose to change a winning formula when Benson replaced Howes at
the production helm, a mistake or some kind of higher wisdom?
“To be absolutely truthful, I wanted Brian to be involved on the latest
album” he remembers “but he had other commitments whereby he’d signed a
deal to produce with another label and was only allowed to do a certain
number of songs outside that label group. It was a bit of a bummer
really because I just assumed that we’d be doing the record with Brian.
In the back of my mind my two favorite producers were Mutt Lange and
Howard Benson and I knew that there was no way in a million years that
we could get Lange to do the record. I thought it’d be great to get
Benson in, although he’s not a songwriter. Now that was the great plus
for having Brian produce the record; he’s an amazing songwriter. I spoke
to Brian and I said that I understood why he couldn’t do the record, but
we still got together and wrote some songs so I got the best of both
worlds with Brian writing and Howard producing. Ultimately it was the
way to go with Howard being the man for the job.
Benson has a reputation for working the balls off those bands that he
works with and Cooper agrees.
“Howard wasn’t afraid to say no,” he barks “if he didn’t like something
he’d tell you and make you go away and rewrite something until he
thought it worked. Go away and write something grittier and darker were
two of his mainstays.”
Cooper is of course a realist when it comes to working with Mutt Lange.
“Hell we’ve got to sell a few more records yet” he laughs “Nickelback is
probably the biggest rock band in the world right now that’s why they
got to work with him, there’s always hope. Incidentally I love that
Nickelback album and Def Leppard is one of my all time favorite bands of
all time. I can’t get enough of that eighties stuff, Def Leppard, Bon
Jovi, AC/DC, I just love it.”
Cooper admits the nineties rock scene didn’t have much going for it.
“It was against everything that I loved for sure” he says “but the
showmanship disappeared eighties bands played arenas and put on a
massive entertainment experience and with the nineties it was almost as
if you weren’t allowed to do that anymore because it wasn’t real enough.
You’d go and see a band and they’d stand there and bore you to death
whilst they stared at the ground. Sorry but I don’t want to pay thirty
bucks to be told that your life sucks, I want to see Kiss, I want to
have my face melted off. Lange helped all that by putting back some of
the entertainment. At the time I had a crappy job that I had to go to
every day and I wanted to escape all that; I wanted a reason to wake up
to every day.
Cooper clearly thinks that the genre is making a comeback.
“Listen” he shouts, “the more our show can look like Kiss the better.
I’ll even put make up on if I need to. I want people to remember our
shows as an experience and want to come and see us again
Writing songs as a one man band-as Cooper has already mentioned- can
often cause internal conflicts within a band, especially when other
members harbor thoughts that they should be involved in the process.
Skillet has no such problems.
“My wife Corey wrote some of the music on Hero” the vocalist explains
“but she’s not prolific enough to write loads of songs for the band. She
does write her own songs but it isn’t really rock. We never really get
any problems, I mean after all Skillet is my band so there’s a bit of an
understanding there as well. If the case arose where one of the band
wrote a great song then I wouldn’t have a problem using it at all. Also
I’m a good listener, so when we go into the studio and members of the
band come up with ideas then I’ll certainly give them some thought…. and
then we’ll do it my way! We’re not like the Beatles, we don’t equally
want to write each song with everyone bringing something to the table,
but I want to know what they think, that’s important.
“Corey does actually do some amazing stuff with the keyboard, sequencing
and programming. I’ll give her the song and then she’ll go away and do
all this crazy programming, it’s more arranging and programming,
certainly without the orchestral and electronic stuff it wouldn’t sound
like Skillet, so Corey really does an amazing job.”
The songs on ‘Awake’ fit nicely into the Skillet catalogue of songs, yet
one song stands out as one that breaks new ground for Skillet.
‘Should’ve When You Could’ve’ is a pure pop song with a nod toward the
pop punk genre. Cooper explains its conception.
“It’s very bubble-gum pop” he admits “but it’s supposed to be fun like
that because it’s tongue in cheek. When I first met Howard Benson I
played him all my songs and he pushed me to write some more songs.
Quizzically I asked him what I needed to write.
He said that having met me, only for about an hour and a half mind you,
he thought I was a pretty funny type of guy, yet none of the songs were
funny. I told him that I didn’t think anyone would like that kind of
stuff but I though ok I’d have a go. Well it took me about half an hour
to write it and it was done as a light hearted attempt and when I played
it to him I really expected him to laugh in a bad way, but he loved it.
No one else liked it but he phoned me to say that he thought it was a
smash hit. You’re the only one who’s asked me about it…which leads me to
believe that it’s not a smash song. Our fans might not get it, but
lyrically and musically it’s a bit different….perhaps it’s a little bit
high school sounding.”
The other obvious standout track on the new album ‘Awake’ is ‘Lucy’, a
stadium power ballad out of the top draw. Written from the heart by
Cooper and with lyrics that point at something personal it has echoes of
‘The Last Night’ from ‘Comatose’ Cooper explains its origins.
“It’s a really special song” the singer explains “and I get asked about
it a lot, so it seems to have that little bit of magic. However, I’m
going to be a little bit vague about what it’s about because I don’t
want to ruin that magic. In general it’s a song about losing someone you
love and wishing you could go back and do things over again; saying
things you didn’t say to them, doing things differently yet knowing that
you’re never going to get them back again. It’s not a fictional song,
it’s not my own personal experience it’s from someone that I talked to.
The thing about that song is that you can adapt it to your own personal
experience, it could be losing someone you love through death, losing
someone in a relationship, it’s what you find that in it that counts.
Skillet has always been known as a Christian band and in the past it has
no doubt affected the popularity of the band. ’Comatose’ and ‘Awake’ are
infinitely more mainstream than the early worship albums put out by the
group yet there surely must be a conflict between remaining mainstream
and expressing your faith. Cooper has his thoughts on the subject.
“To be honest I’ve found ways to express my faith in more palatable
ways” he admits “the lyrics have become broader and more inviting to
people, allowing them to draw their own conclusions.”
Perhaps a decision was consciously to go in this direction by Cooper and
his band.
“Well I had a bit of an epiphany after watching the film The Day After
Tomorrow” he continues “when the snow was falling on America it all
seemed so preachy and boring that I thought hell I might look like that
through my band if I continue to write lyrics like this people will have
the same view about Skillet. It was really about this time that I looked
at writing lyrics that were more universal, more tailored for everyone
rather than specific to a Christian audience. Let people draw their own
conclusions from the lyrics that’s how I see it.”
Cooper also sees the obvious problems with Christian bands and their
music crossing over into a secular market.
“Well I kind of got a vibe” he concludes, “that when we were putting
songs out to radio and they never did anything that we weren’t really
welcome to the party. I’m a pretty outgoing person, quite loud and quite
upfront; if I weren’t a Christian I’d be arrested all the time. Last
week before a concert I just though it would be funny to karate kick
this girl in the leg. I have to this day no earthly idea why I thought
it would be funny I just did it. Turns out that she had a knee injury
that I didn’t know about and afterwards I just felt terrible. Sometimes
if we were on tour with bands, I’d be my usual crazy self, probably more
so than all the other people from the other bands and I was always
thinking why don’t they like us. I came to the conclusion that perhaps
it was because we were Christian. The same with radio, they just said
we’re sick of Christian music so we’re not playing it no matter what,
that’s always been a battle for us. It was almost like we were gay and
we had to somehow find a way to hide our faith. The guy from Judas
Priest came out when the band was already a success and in the U.S the
band P.O.D was already a phenomena before they declared their faith. We
were already labeled a Christian band and so it makes it much harder.
Hopefully ‘Monster’ is now starting to make headway and breaking down
some of those barriers and stereotypes associated with Christian rock. I
can also appreciate the other side of the coin, when Christian bands
cross over to the mainstream and then deny their faith that can lead to
a loss in fans that followed the band from day one. We don’t do that;
we’re very vocal about being Christians and would never denounce our
faith and I don’t care what people think.”
Much of Skillets signature sound is generated from sweeping orchestral
arrangements; Cooper takes the lid off their origins.
“We generate some through electronics and some through the real thing”
he reveals “for instance ‘Rebirthing’ features the L.A symphony
orchestra which was amazing, but on the song ‘Comatose’ the strings were
computer generated. On the new album it’s all computer generated but
when we go live we have a violinist play over the top of it, so it’s a
bit of a mixture. The violinist and the cellist are professional
musicians who tour with us and as such they’re hired guns rather than
band members but they love it because when they’re on tour with us they
can let their hair down rather than remaining faceless as part of an
orchestra. We get them coming out of the darkness under the spotlights,
it’s pretty impressive and enhances the shows”
Skillet is currently on tour with Hawk Nelson, Decyfer down and latest
Tooth and Nail darlings The Letter Black and this is what Skillet is all
about….touring, but what about Europe.
“Hell we love touring” he enthuses “but when you’re on tour it makes it
hard to write songs and that’s obviously a reason in the delaying of the
new album. As far as Europe, I hate England……just joking! My wife
actually has two sisters married to Englishman, so we used to visit all
the time. The problem is that when we came over before it was too
premature; we came to early and it was really bad. We had no one come
and see us, we had no road manager, I knew nothing about the currency or
merchandising and I jut didn’t ever want to go again. On the other hand
in Germany we had some really good shows. For me it seems like 2010 is
really the time to start going overseas again, to Germany, Japan and
other countries including England. Atlantic has started pushing the band
in other territories so we’ll have to see.
We wait with baited breath but as we’ve had visits of Theory Of A
Deadman, Hinder, Shinedown and Black Stone Cherry to these shores of
late the chance looks increasingly likely that this will happen. Happy
New year indeed. |
